Geek anti-intellectualism: replies

My essay on “geek anti-intellectualism” hit a nerve.  I get the sense that a lot of geeks are acting–quite unusually for them–defensively, because I’ve presented them with a sobering truth about themselves that they hadn’t realized.  Consequently they’ve been unusually thoughtful and polite.  This is quite new and startling to me–I mean, there’s something about this discussion that I can’t remember ever seeing before.  Anyway, it must have seemed relevant, because it was posted live on Slashdot within minutes of my submitting it–something I’d never seen before–and proceeded to rack up 916 comments, as of this writing, which is quite a few for Slashdot.  It was also well discussed on Metafilter, on Twitter, and here on this blog (where I’ve had over 160 comments so far).  What struck me about these discussions was the unusually earnest attempts, in most cases, to come to grips with some of the issues I raised.  Of course, there has been some of the usual slagging from the haters, and a fair number of not-very-bright responses, but an unusually high proportion of signal, some of it quite insightful.  Reminds me of some old college seminars, maybe.

First, let me concede that I left a lot unsaid.  Of course, what I left unsaid ended up being said, sometimes ad nauseam, in the comments, and a few points I found to be quite enlightening.  On the other hand, I find a lot of geeks thinking that they understand aspects of higher education that they really don’t.  I’m not sure I can set them right, but I’ll try to make a few points anyway.

I am going to do what I’ve always done, since the 1990s, when something I’ve written elicited a much greater response than I could possibly deal with: make a numbered laundry list of replies.

1. How dare you accuse all geeks of being anti-intellectual? I didn’t; RTFA.  I know there are lots of very intellectual geeks and that geekdom is diverse in various ways.  I’m talking about social trends, which are always a little messy; but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to discuss.

2. There’s a difference between being anti-intellectual and being anti-academic. Maybe the most common response was that geeks don’t dislike knowledge or the intellect, they dislike intellectuals with their academic institutions and practices.  First, let me state my geek credentials.  I’ve spent a lot of time online since the mid-90s.  I started many websites, actually learned some programming, and managed a few software projects.  You’ll notice that I’m not in academe now.  I have repeatedly (four times) left academe and later returned.

I agree that academia has become way too politicized.  Too many academics think it’s OK to preach their ideology to their students, and their tendency to organize conferences and journals around tendentious ideological themes is not just annoying, it is indeed unscholarly.  Moreover, speaking as a skeptically-inclined philosopher, I think that some academics have an annoying tendency to promote their views with unwarranted confidence, and also to pretend to speak authoritatively on subjects outside of their training.  Also, in many fields, the economics of academic advancement and publishing has created a tendency to focus on relatively unimportant minutiae, to the detriment of broader insight and scholarly wisdom.  Also, I completely agree that college work has been watered down (but more on that in the next point).

Having admitted all that, I’m still not backing down; I knew all that when I was writing my essay.  Please review the five points I made.  None of them is at odds with this critique of academe.  Just because some experts can be annoyingly overconfident, it doesn’t follow that they do not deserve various roles in society articulating what is known about their areas of expertise.  If you deny that, then you are devaluing the knowledge they actually have; that’s an anti-intellectual attitude.  If you want to know what the state of the research is in a field, you ask a researcher.  So even if your dislike of academics is justified in part, it does not follow that their word on their expertise is worth the same as everyone else’s.  Besides, most of my points had little to do with academics per se: I also had points about books in general, classics in particular, and memorization and learning.

3. Just because you think college is now a bad deal, economically speaking, it doesn’t follow that you’re anti-intellectual. Well, duh.  I didn’t really take up the question whether the present cost of college justifies not going, and I’m not going to get into that, because I don’t really think it’s relevant.  Let’s suppose you’re right, and that for some people, the long-term cost of college loans, combined with the fact that they won’t get much benefit from their college education, means that they’re justified not going.  My complaint is not about people who don’t go to college, my complaint is about people who say that college is “a waste of time” if you do go and are committed.  Maybe, for people who don’t study much and who don’t let themselves benefit, it is a waste of time.  But that’s their fault, not the fault of college.  I taught at Ohio State, which is not nearly as demanding as the college I attended myself (Reed), and I saw many students drifting through, not doing the reading, not coming to class, rarely practicing their writing skills.  I also saw people who always did the reading, always came to class, participated regularly, and were obviously benefiting from their encounter with great writing and great ideas.  Moreover, how college affects you isn’t “the luck of the draw.”  It depends on your commitment and curiosity.  This is why some partiers drop out and come back to college after five or ten years, and then they do great and finally enjoy themselves in class.

Finally, may I say again (I said it first in the 1990s, and also a few days ago), it is possible to get a degree by examination from programs like Excelsior College?  This way, you bypass the expense of college and pick all your instructors for a fraction of the cost.  This entails that you can get intellectually trained, as well as earn a real college degree, without going into debt.  This would be my advice to the clever ex-homeschoolers who claim that it is college that is, somehow, anti-intellectual.  Put up or shut up, home scholars: if you really are committed to the life of the mind, as you say, and you’ve already got experience directing your own studies, why not get a degree through independent study with academic tutors, and then take tests (and portfolio evaluations) to prove your knowledge and get the credential?

4. The people you’re describing are not true geeks; they are the digerati, or “hipsters,” or leftist academics who were already anti-intellectual and then started doing geek stuff. Uh, no.  I mean, you’re probably right that some anti-intellectual thinkers who weren’t geeks have started talking about the Internet a lot, and they have a big web presence, so now they might appear to be part of geekdom.  But they aren’t really, by any reasonably stringent definition of “geek.”  Besides, if you look at my article, you’ll see that that’s what I said (such people fall into the category of “digerati”).  My point is that claims (1)-(5) started circulating online among geeks, and they are, each of them, commonly spouted by lots of geeks.  Take them in turn.  (1) Anti-expert animus is a well-known feature of the geek thought-world.  Wikipedia became somewhat anti-expert because of the dominance of geeks in the project.  (2) Of course, the geeks at Project Gutenberg love books, but all too often I see comments online that books went out in the 20th century, and good riddance.  One of the leading idols of the geeks, Clay Shirky, essentially declared books to be a dying medium, to be replaced with something more collaborative.  (3) It is obvious just from the comments here on this blog, and elsewhere, that some geeks find the classics (that means philosophy, history, novels, epics, poetry, drama, religious texts, etc.)  to be a waste of time.  They don’t have the first clue about what they’re talking about.  (4) The first time I saw the idea discussed much that Internet resources mean we no longer have to memorize (and hence learn) as many facts was among Wikipedians in 2002 or so (when it was totally dominated by geeks, even more than it is now).  (5) The whole college-is-a-waste-of-time thing is a not uncommon geek conceit.  It’s not surprising in the least that a founder of Paypal.com would spout it.  It’s easy for computer geeks to say, because they can get well-paying jobs without degrees.  In many other fields, that’s (still) not true.

5. But I’m an intellectual, and I know that learning facts is indeed passe.  The things to be learned are “relationships” or “analysis” or “critical thinking.” Oh?  Then I claim that you are espousing an anti-intellectual sentiment, whether you know it or not.  I’m not saying you’re opposed to all things intellectual, I’m saying that that opinion is, to be perfectly accurate, a key feature of anti-intellectualism.  Look, this is very simple.  If you have learned something, then you can, at the very least, recall it.  In other words, you must have memorized it, somehow.  This doesn’t necessarily mean you must have used flashcards to jam it into your recalcitrant brain by force, so to speak.  Memorization doesn’t have to be by rote.  But even if you do a project, if you haven’t come to remember some fact as a result, then you don’t know it.  Thus I say that to be opposed to the memorization of facts is to be opposed to the learning, and knowing, of those facts.  To advocate against all memorization is to advocate for ignorance.  For more on this, please see my EDUCAUSE Review essay “Individual Knowledge in the Internet Age.”

I know that this is an old and common sentiment among education theorists–which is a shame.  Indeed, the educationists who say that it is not necessary to memorize the multiplication table are implying that it is OK for kids to be ignorant of those math facts.  (No, it’s not OK.  They should know them.)  Anyway, it might have started with misguided educators, but it is becoming far too common among geeks too.

6. The Internet is changing, that’s all.  Most people are anti-intellectual, and they’re getting online. No doubt about it, the Internet has changed greatly in the last five to ten years.  And it might well be the case that the average netizen is more anti-intellectual than in the past, in the very weak sense that more stupid people and uneducated people are getting online.  This might have been clever to say, if my point had been, “Folks online seem to be getting anti-intellectual.”  But that isn’t at all what I said or meant.  If you will review the evidence I marshalled, you’ll see that the people I’m talking about are not the great unwashed masses.  I’m talking about geeks and the digerati who presume to speak about geeky things.  And their influence, as I said, has been growing.

7. Americans are anti-intellectual.  Geek anti-intellectualism is just a reflection of that. Think about what you’re saying here; it doesn’t make much sense.  I claim that geeks are increasingly anti-intellectual, or increasingly giving voice to anti-intellectual sentiments.  This is a trend, which many people are discussing now because they recognize it as well.  American anti-intellectualism, a well-known phenomenon, goes back to colonial days, and was rooted in our distance from the erstwhile European sources of intellectual life as well as the physical difficulty of frontier life.  The pattern of anti-intellectualism I discern is a relatively recent phenomenon, which has grown up especially with the rise of the Internet.

8. Conservatives never were the anti-intellectuals; it was always the liberal lefties! Glenn Reynolds linked my post, and so some conservatives grumbled about my line, “Once upon a time, anti-intellectualism was said to be the mark of knuckle-dragging conservatives, and especially American Protestants.  Remarkably, that seems to be changing.”  Well, I hate to wade into politics here.  I used the passive voice deliberately, because I did not want to endorse the claim that anti-intellectualism is the mark of “knuckle-dragging conservatives” (I don’t endorse this phrase, either).  All I meant to say is that this is one of liberals’ favorite things to say about American fundamentalists.  I was about to, but did not, go on to say that actually, among the home schooling crowd, liberals and libertarians tend to go in for “unschooling,” which is relatively (and not necessarily) hostile to traditional academics, and it is conservatives who go in for  uber-academic Latin-and-logic “classical education.”  I didn’t say that, because I knew it would be distracting to my point.  So I’m kind of sorry I made the remark about conservatives, because it too was distracting to my point.  Suffice it to say that there are plenty of knuckle-draggers, so to speak, everywhere.

9. Are you crazy?  Geeks are smart, and you’re calling geeks stupid by calling them anti-intellectual. You didn’t know that “anti-intellectual” does not mean “stupid,” apparently.  There are plenty of anti-intellectual geeks who are crazy smart.  They aren’t stupid in the least.  You also must distinguish between having anti-intellectual attitudes or views, which is what I was talking about, and having anti-intellectual practices. There are plenty of intellectuals in academia who are anti-intellectual.  (There are Jewish anti-Semites, too.)  Just think of any progressive education professor who inveighs against most academic work in K-12 schools, describes academic work that involves a little memorization and practice as “drill and kill,” wants the world to institute unschooling and the project method en masse, has nothing but the purest P.C. contempt for the Western canon, advocates for vocational education for all but those who are truly, personally enthusiastic about academics, wants academic education to be as collaborative as possible rather than requiring students to read books, which are “irrelevant” to the fast-changing daily lives of students, and channeling Foucault rails against the hegemony of scientists and other experts.  Well, such a person I would describe as an anti-intellectual intellectual.  The person might well write perfectly-crafted articles with scholarly apparatus, read classics in her field, and so forth.  It’s just that her opinions are unfortunately hostile to students getting knowledge (in my opinion).

10. But the liberal arts are a waste of time.  Studying Chaucer?  Philosophy?  History?  The vague opinionizing is pointless and facts can be looked up. If you believe this way, then I have to point out that virtually any really educated person will disagree with you.  Once you have received a liberal education, your mind expands.  You might not understand how, or why it’s important, but it does.  That’s why people devote their lives to this stuff, even when it doesn’t pay much, as it usually doesn’t.  If you haven’t studied philosophy, you can’t begin to understand the universe and our place in it–I don’t care how much theoretical physics you’ve studied.  There are aspects of reality that can be grasped only by critically examining the content of our concepts.  Similarly, if you haven’t read much literature and especially if you are young, then you are very probably a complete babe in the woods when it comes to the understanding of human nature and the human condition; that’s why people read literature, not so that they can sniff disdainfully at others over their lattes.

11. What you call “anti-intellectual” is really “anti-authority.”  You’re merely defending the prerogatives of snooty intellectuals whose authority is on the wane. This is one of the most common and often snarkiest replies I’ve run across.  But it’s also a very interesting point.  Still, on analysis, I’m going to call it flimsy at best.  I’m going to spend quite a bit of space on this one.  Feel free to skip to down to the end (“In Sum” before “Conclusion”).

Let’s distinguish between being opposed to knowledge in its various forms, on the one hand, and being opposed to the prerogatives of intellectuals, on the other.  I claim that the path many geeks are headed down really has them opposed to theoretical and factual knowledge per se. I think the evidence I offered supported this reasonably well, but let me try to make it a little more explicit.

Consider point (1), about experts.  (“Experts do not deserve any special role in declaring what is known.”)  That certainly looks like it is about the prerogatives of experts.  If for example on Wikipedia I encountered people saying, for example, “Experts need to prove this to us, not just assert their authoritah,” that would be fair enough.  That’s not anti-intellectual at all.  But going farther to say, “You merely have access to resources, you don’t understand this any better than I do” and “You’re not welcome here” is to fail to admit that through their study and experience, the experts have something more to contribute than the average Joe.  If you can’t bring yourself to admit that–and I submit that the stripe of geek I’m describing can’t–then your attitude is anti-intellectual.  (Some people are refreshingly honest about just this.)  Then what you’re saying is that specialized study and experience do not lead to anything valuable, and are a waste of time.  But they lead to knowledge, which is valuable, and not a waste of time.

Point (2) (that books per se are outmoded) also, admittedly, has a little to do with intellectual authority–but only a little.  One of the reasons that some geeks, and others, are welcoming the demise of books is that they resent a single person set up as an authority by a publisher.  They say that publishing can and should be more like a conversation, and in a conversation, there shouldn’t be one “authority,” but rather a meeting of equal minds.  So perhaps those who are pleased to attack the medium of books couch their views as an attack on authority.  Perhaps.  But when I defend books, I really don’t care about authority so much.  Of course, when thinking adults read books, they don’t read them it in order to receive the truth from on high.  They are interested (in argumentative books, to take just one kind) in a viewpoint being fully and intelligently canvassed.  As some of the geeks commenting do not realize, and as some people don’t realize until they get to graduate school, it frequently requires a book–or several books–to fully articulate a case for some relatively narrow question.  Scholars should be praised, not faulted, for being so committed to the truth that they are willing to write, and read, discussions that are that long.  The fact that publishers have to pick authors who are capable of mounting excellent arguments at such length doesn’t mean that their readers are supposed simply to accept whatever they are told.  At bottom, then, to oppose books as such is to be opposed to the only way extended verbal arguments (and narratives and exposition) can be propagated.  An indeterminately large collaboration can’t develop a huge, integrated, complex theory, write a great novel, or develop a unified, compelling narrative about some element of our experience.  If you want to call yourself intellectual, you’ve got to support the creation of such works by individual people.

Point (3), about the classics, has almost nothing to do with the prerogatives of authority.  The shape of the Western Canon, if you will, does not rest on anybody’s authority, but instead on the habits of educators (school and university) as an entire class.  You’re not rebelling against anybody’s authority when you rebel against classics; you are, if anything, rebelling against the ideas the classics contain, or against the labor of reading something that is demanding to read.  In any case, anybody who comes down squarely against reading the classics is, to that extent, decidedly anti-intellectual.  Face it.

Point (4), which has us memorizing as little as possible and using the Internet as a memory prosthesis as much as possible, has absolutely nothing to do with authority.  If you’re opposed to memorizing something, you’re opposed to learning and knowing it.  That’s quite anti-intellectual.

Point (5) concerns college, and on this many people said, in effect, “I oppose the stupidity of an overpriced, mediocre, unnecessary product that rests on the alleged authority of college professors.”  Then it looks like you’re criticizing the authority of professors, and so you think I’m defending that.  Well, to be sure, if college professors had no significant knowledge, which (as I think) gives their views some intellectual authority, then there would be no point in paying money to study with them.  But I can defend the advisability of systematic college-level study (I choose these words carefully) without making any controversial claims about the authority of college professors.  I do not, for example, have to assume that college professors must always be believed, that they are infallible, that we should not be skeptical of most of what they say (especially in the humanities and social sciences).  After all, most professors expect their students to be skeptical and not to take what they say uncritically; and only a very dull student will do that, anyway.  If you didn’t know that, it’s probably because you haven’t been to college.  So, no.  I am not merely defending the authority of college professors.  I am personally quite critical of most scholarship I encounter.

In sum, I know that libertarian geeks (I’d count myself as one, actually) love to rail against the prerogatives of authority.  You’d like to justify your anti-intellectual attitudes (and sometimes, behavior) as fighting against The Man.  Maybe that is why you have your attitudes, maybe not.  In any case, that doesn’t stop said attitudes from being anti-intellectual, and your issues don’t mean that I am especially concerned to defend the prerogatives of authority.  I am not.

Conclusion

I think I’ve hit most of the high points.

One thing I didn’t discuss in my original essay was why geeks have become so anti-intellectual, especially with the rise of the Internet.  Here is my take on that.  Most geeks are very smart, predominantly male, and capable of making an excellent livelihood from the sweat of their minds.  Consequently, as a class, they’re more arrogant than most, and they naturally have a strong independent streak.  Moreover, geeks pride themselves on finding the most efficient (“laziest”) way to solve any problem, even if it is a little sloppy.  When it comes to getting qualified for work, many will naturally dismiss the necessity of college if they feel they can, because they hate feeling put-upon by educators who can’t even write two lines of code.  And the whole idea of memorizing stuff, well, it seems more and more unnecessarily effortful when web searching often uncovers answers just as well (they very misguidedly think).  What about books, and classics in particular?  Well, geek anti-intellectual attitudes here are easily explained as a combination of laziness and arrogance.  The Iliad takes a lot of effort, and the payoff is quite abstract; instead, they could read a manual or write code or engineer some project, and do a lot more of what they recognize as “learning.”  The advent of new social media and the decline of the popularity of books are developments that only confirm their attitude.  It doesn’t hurt that geek is suddenly chic, which surely only inflates geek arrogance.  If they admit to themselves that there is something to philosophy, history, or anything else that takes time, hard study, and reflection to learn, but which does not produce code or gadgetry, then they would feel a little deflated.  This doesn’t sit well with their pride, of course.  They’re smart, they think, and so how could they be opposed to any worthwhile knowledge?

So it shouldn’t be surprising that some (only some) geeks turn out to be anti-intellectual.  This is no doubt why many people said, in response to my essay, “This is just what I’ve been thinking.”


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52 responses to “Geek anti-intellectualism: replies”

  1. SGB

    I have to agree with your argument that learning must involve memorization. From my experience, the “project-based learning” method is really pushed for in schools and colleges these days along with the claim that people learn better by doing. Learning by doing is only a portion of the actual learning though. Projects can help for remembering the step-by-step process, but you won’t get anywhere if you don’t memorize the facts you need to complete each step. Projects and memorization are very complementary in this way, and I fear that there has been a shift away from a balanced approach to learning.

    I think there is definitely a connection between this anti-intellectualism you are describing and the way internet culture encourages us to process and apply information. We computer geeks are used to seeing immediate and predictable results from applying knowledge. For example, we write code and we can see the immediate result of doing so, i.e., a working program. Reading classic novels, however, does not have an immediate, tangible application. Doing so can expand one’s ways of thinking and provide a pool of ideas to draw from, but it is not nearly as easy to tell that this is happening. It makes sense that so many people abandon this type of knowledge in favor of more “practical” knowledge.

    I agree with many of your ideas overall, and I appreciate that you didn’t mince words when getting them across. The trend toward anti-intellectualism is alarming. But the most important question is: What, if anything, can we do about it?

  2. Sung Kim

    Hi Larry, I disagree with your idea that there is a new geek anti-intellectualism. I don’t believe that knowledge should be democratically determined. You claim that books are outmoded because a single person decides what is true, but that person is an expert and a reliable source of information on the topic of the book. Expert critiques are also in place to determine the quality of the information in the book to help guide the public. Also, you claim that we don’t have to go to an expensive college to succeed; we just need to be a bright and creative geek that can succeed like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Perhaps college is overpriced, but without a college degree, which employers base my qualifications on, I would have a harder time finding a job. You cannot try to appeal to people the thought of not attending college when becoming the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates is one in a million. Finally, I disagree on the claim that there is a new anti-intellectualism because there is a lot of data being accumulated but little memorization. You claim that knowledge is what someone has memorized and that text is what is stored in database. I disagree; I believe that database is a tool that aids in utilizing knowledge. I don’t believe that we are faced with an anti-intellectualism crisis.

  3. Cindy Z

    Through “Is there a new geek anti-intellectualism?” and “Geek anti-intellectualism: replies”, there is evidence provided for the idea that the increasingly visible geek community is either consciously or unconsciously fostering an anti-intellectual mentality, propagated through their advocacy against books, higher education, and the fundamental aspects associated with academia. Predominantly referred to as the ‘digerati’, this subset of geeks disregard the importance of liberal arts and memorization in correlation to learning, advocating a system based largely on the idea that everyone is equally intelligent and therefore has equal authority on all topics of knowledge. This unwavering belief that all views should be equally valued despite credentials, schooling, or prior experience is essentially the driving force behind this anti-intellectual movement.
    While the existence of an anti-intellectual movement present-day is indeed questionable, the likelihood of a future movement is rather high. If society continues upon a path driven toward technical fields, the demand for experts in the liberal arts will deplete further. Overtime, this dearth will result in complete removal of humanities as a requirement for students. The origins of this lack of respect for humanities stems from the fact that books such as “The Illiad takes a lot of effort, and the payoff is quite abstract” (5). Furthermore, the occupation as a humanities expert offers limited financial rewards as “people devote their lives to this stuff even when it doesn’t pay much” (4), leading those with only monetary ambitions to pursue technical fields. Ultimately, the end result of such a heavily technical society will be an anti-intellectual mentality away from liberal arts in which students no longer bother to read entire texts, believing their opinions to be as good as, if not better, than those of their educators.
    Moreover, this sense of equality in collaborations and discussions on topics such as history or literature, that is fairly open to interpretation, leads to a movement away from the humanities. Due to these unwarranted beliefs, students move toward technical fields that offer more concrete and practical skills that prove worth. In comparison, the humanities offers only subjective claims that can be easily disputed or supported based on an individual’s experiences and opinions. Thus, geeks often contest the importance of memorization and reading long texts, dismissing the act as unnecessary in the face of technological advances. However, the act of memorizing and reading is not solely for the retention of information, but rather the concepts and ideas that are inspired by books or general knowledge: a sentiment lost on these ‘geeks’.
    In the end, the amalgamation of all the beliefs held by geeks lead them to a path of anti-intellectualism. Though, if carefully corrected, this anti-intellectual movement can be avoided.

  4. Sean Park

    Let me begin by saying that I respect your willingness to respond to the oft mindless responses to your piece, It takes a real dedication to the content to defend it against those who misinterpret it and see it as they want to.

    With that out of the way, I must say that I have a slight issue with this rebuttal segment. The prompts you chose to respond to seem awfully cherry-picked. By that I mean that they all appear to be either easy to explain away, or almost unrealistically extreme. One example of note is the prompt that goes along the lines of “But I’m an intellectual, and I know that learning facts is indeed passé”. I find it very hard to believe that this is a good representation of even a small part of your response pool. I doubt that too many people, especially intellectuals, would actually boast that they are intellectuals, given the hugely presumptuous nature of doing so. Furthermore, the more inflammatory responses, particularly those insinuating your insanity in implicating that some geeks are anti-intellectual, seem unrealistic simply based on the more literate and level headed audience that would read your piece.

    Despite your suspect methodology in choosing messages to respond to, I must say that I agreed with your arguments. Your attempts to dissipate the false generalizations that people accused your piece of having were very well warranted, and your acknowledgement of various factors such as the changing state of the internet was good to see.

    In short, your arguments were good, if a bit convenient.

  5. Felicia Alfieri

    As society becomes more and more obsessed with technology every day, geeks are being thrown into the spotlight far more frequently than in the past. Larry Sanger makes a lot of large claims about the geeks of today’s world, and while some of them may be accurate, he does not provide enough solid information to support his overall argument that these geeks, newly visible to the public eye, are anti-intellectuals.
    Sanger fears that dependence on technology will make society more stupid, and he urges his readers to practice focusing. However, he provides no details as a basis for why this fear of his is rational or noteworthy. He simply says, “but of course it is a bad thing, and it is in our control,” without any explanation or call for action that could correct the issue.
    By providing a succinct list of characteristics of a geek, Sanger clarifies his point to an extent, but he fails to elaborate on some of the important notes. For example, Sanger claims that geeks have no respect for experts and he says, “Knowledge is now democratically determined, as it should be,” without actually fully describing why this happens or what it entails. This could potentially be a true and relevant point to his argument, but he fails to provide the necessary evidence to validate it.
    Even in his rebuttal (which ends up longer than the original article due to so many questionable claims), Sanger groups geeks together and labels them as lazy and arrogant. He, once again, does not provide any evidence for these claims except for maybe his own personal experience, which certainly cannot apply to the geek community as a whole.
    While Sanger does make some clear arguments, like that intellectualism must come through education, memorization is important to learning, and decreasing attention spans are a cause for concern, he does not provide any particularly strong support for his claims. All in all, it could be a read-worthy article if it did not come off as so scattered, biased and foundationally weak.

  6. Arthur Pendragon

    Akin to any decently-educated individual, I can appreciate any well-written argument, whether or not I personally agree with the ideas. However, I find these two articles about geek anti-intellectualism, especially the original one, to be flawed in the proof of your various claims. The original article kicks off with a section devoted to delineating your evidence, but upon careful inspection, it becomes apparent that “the evidence” provided is heavily biased. You take the extreme liberty of hyperbolically accusing the large, nearly undefinable mass of geeks on the Internet. This hasty generalization aside, your evidence almost all falls into one of two categories. The first category is when you use your own, previously written works as evidence, which ostensibly will contain your bias. The second main type of evidence you provide is that of the intellectual side of the conflict. Moreover, the point I wish to make here is that you scarcely provide any evidence from the “geek” side of the argument. After listing several links to your articles and multiple opinionated quotes on the side of intellectualism, you hurriedly drop in one paragraph of evidence from actual geeks. However, the evidence in that paragraph solely comes from two dogmatic outliers; consequently, it seems to be a stretch to extend their specific opinions to such a large group of individuals. Ultimately, this weighted bias against the “geeks” you target makes it hard for me to accept your argument. Perhaps I seem a little biased as well, but it seems to be an incredible jump of logic to generalize the entire set of “Internet geeks and digerati” as anti-intellectuals.

  7. Kerry S

    In your original essay, you claims that “geeks” oppose intellectualism and essentially see no value in it. Unfortunately, you fail to quantify intellectualism and clearly define who he is talking about. You seems to define an intellectual only as one who has attained a level of higher education, or who has “devoted their life to knowledge”(1), while the “geeks” are the ones who, for example, skip college to create an internet company, and that these people oppose higher education. I, however, see an intellectual who can understand society as a whole and use this knowledge to incite positive change. If you take this definition, you can see how geeks actually have become the modern intellectual, and how internet and technology visionaries such as Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg use and have used their skills in order to revolutionize our communication and interaction with others. I argue that these people are the ones affecting our world and enacting positive change, many times in a more effective manner than the academic intellectuals of old. Even your idea of an intellectual as simply a college educated person fails to accurately reflect the situation. Many of these wildly successful entrepreneurs, like Gates and Zuckerberg, give large quantities of their wealth to promoting and improving formal education. (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/united-states/Pages/program-overview.aspx and http://mashable.com/2010/12/09/mark-zuckerberg/). You argues against these changes in education, disagreeing with Sir Ken Robinson suggestion that “K-12 education needs a sea change away from ‘boring’ academics and toward collaborative methods that foster ‘creativity’”(2). You goes on to claim that we are heading in the direction of “widespread lack of analytical tools and conceptual understanding”(4). I don’t see how teaching children simple memorization and recitation of facts will in any way improve their analytical tools and conceptual understanding. Modern wealthy “geeks” are donating their money to help improve creativity and thinking skills in our next generations. If you were that prosperous, would you donate that money to something you’re against?

    1. Bill Gates the “new intellectual?” He’s a poster child for Sanger’s argument. This is the guy whose favorite insult is to say that someone “isn’t technical.” A wonderful example of the fallacy that someone is intelligent if and only if they can write a computer program.

  8. Kevin Hughes

    The argument of “is there a new geek anti-intellectual” is one that will fire up some. Especially those who feel they are geeks and are offended of being called anti-intellectual. This is not what you are going for. You simply just say that the trend is changing, not the bold statement that all geeks are anti-intellectual and against institutions of classical learning. This is not what he is arguing at all, he just specifies that the trend of geeks is overall turning into geeks being against classic learning. This has definitely showed itself of the past years on the internet. Geeks nowadays have the thought that if they have one great idea that no college or university is necessary to succeed. If they get it out there and people like it, they will succeed in their career. People like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates have proven this in their careers and geeks are aspiring to be like this. They almost want to “stick it” to the general thought that college is necessary. If they make billions of dollars they feel they have won. I also believe totally in the claim that people are drifting away from the idea of written literature. They feel it is dumb to waste time reading an entire book when they could easily Google it and be done. I personally feel that this is a disgusting trend. It is a horrible thought to that Googling the fact and knowing it for five minutes is better than reading a book and really learning about the subject. It is terrible that as technology advances, people feel less and less inclined to read a book and spend the time learning. This is not the way that people should learn. We need to learn from past literature and advance our knowledge of the past as opposed to focusing on only the future. Specifically the future of technology. I agree that geeks are changing in society these days and it is a trend that needs to be changed. Do not get offended if you are a geek. Accept it and then try to change the connotation of it.

  9. Gabriela P

    After reading “Is there a new geek anti-intellectualism,” I could only imagine the immense amount of defensive replies from geeks you would get. Evidently, that did occur – as you predicted in the initial article, asking the geeks if they “find [their] views misrepresented,” as the statements you made were quite hyperbolic and “provocative.” Like you, I agree that many geeks may be in denial of the anti-intellectualism they perpetuate by having “tl;dr” attitudes.
    As a self-proclaimed geek, I admit to having said tl;dr attitude.

    For my history class, we read a graphic adaptation of the 9/11 Report. The original report is more than 400 pages long – pages of pure text. The graphic adaptation, on the other hand, is only a couple hundred pages of long – pages filled with comic book depictions of the people and events of 9/11, along with captions extracted from the original report. The graphic novel was tenfold times easier to digest, because it required less mental effort. The point I contest, however, is whether this makes me an anti-intellectual. I still thirst for knowledge – I just want it in a more concise, digestible form. Is it really attention span or the ability to wade through long, muddy passages of text that constitutes an intellectual?

    I think by pointing out the main claims of the received you received, and consequently and successfully tearing them down, you demonstrate the strengths of your original argument. I particularly like the explanation of the difference between databases (whether in a library or on the internet) containing *text* and human minds containing *knowledge*. I originally disagreed with your claim that memorization is necessary, but seeing the dichotomy between ‘text’ and ‘knowledge’ now makes it clear that knowing straight facts is a necessary component of knowledge. It does not negate the necessity to *understand* subject matter, but rather renders it possible in the first place.

    This second blog post will hopefully clarify some points for people who doubted your argument (as it did for me), and take some of the anti-intellectual geeks on the Internet out of their denial.

  10. Rhiannon

    Both the original essay and the reply make strong arguments for the fact that a geek anti-intellectualism is on the rise, but are most convincing when taken together. The first article, while it provided many facts and drew on several sources to base the claim on, lacked the balance brought about by the reply’s refutation of various arguments to the contrary. Largely, the first article only provided support for the idea that a geek anti-intellectual trend was on the rise, and neglected to acknowledge or refute other opinions on the subject. This was perhaps due to the fact that a blog post is not an essay or lecture; there wasn’t an expectation that they should have been. But taking the first article, and this reply, together, the evidence given to support the claim in the first, coupled with the refutation of the opposition (as well as the clearing up of some ambiguous terms in the first article) not only clearly articulates the idea that there is a new geek anti-intellectualism but fully supports it. In pointing out the recent trend in the hostility of the digital elite towards classical knowledge and learning in general (noting the dismissal of books, college learning, and expert opinion), and the push towards collaborative databases and shared resources to replace them, showing the support that some high profile geeks Peter Thiel have for these trends, while reiterating that it is only the trend (and not the individual geeks) that is anti-intellectual, the combination of the two essays, I believe, very convincingly portrays and supports the idea that the current geek trend is towards anti-intellectualism.

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