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	<title>Comments for Larry Sanger Blog</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 13:23:42 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Why is spaced repetition not better known? by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/why-is-spaced-repetition-not-better-known/#comment-44436</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 13:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1151#comment-44436</guid>
		<description>Agreed re learning ABCs--although e.g. my 19-month-old is learning his ABCs, and I wouldn&#039;t use this method with him, because the method requires testing and it is a bad idea to test little ones.

Re teaching facts, well, you do your best. You have to start sometime. I suspect the word &quot;fact&quot; is what you&#039;re reacting to. Well, call them purported facts. We can&#039;t do better than what we ascertain to be facts after conscientious research and formulation. If we don&#039;t teach &lt;em&gt;that,&lt;/em&gt; then we don&#039;t teach any declarative knowledge at all, leaving children in ignorance. If it comes down to ignorance vs. a large belief system that is 98% accurate, I&#039;ll go with the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed re learning ABCs&#8211;although e.g. my 19-month-old is learning his ABCs, and I wouldn&#8217;t use this method with him, because the method requires testing and it is a bad idea to test little ones.</p>
<p>Re teaching facts, well, you do your best. You have to start sometime. I suspect the word &#8220;fact&#8221; is what you&#8217;re reacting to. Well, call them purported facts. We can&#8217;t do better than what we ascertain to be facts after conscientious research and formulation. If we don&#8217;t teach <em>that,</em> then we don&#8217;t teach any declarative knowledge at all, leaving children in ignorance. If it comes down to ignorance vs. a large belief system that is 98% accurate, I&#8217;ll go with the latter.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is spaced repetition not better known? by Bronwyn</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/why-is-spaced-repetition-not-better-known/#comment-44425</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1151#comment-44425</guid>
		<description>Actually I have been wondering something similar about the way our young children are often taught the letters (and their sounds) in preschool. Very often this is done by letter of the week and I believe this is not a good way to teach this - it would be better to teach more at a time with plenty of spaced repetition. Naturally the more something is repeated the more it will be remembered and spacing well is needed so that the maximum amount can be presented and remembered.

However, I would be careful of teaching certain &quot;facts&quot; as much of what we learn could be opinion rather than fact and I would not like to influence my child with &quot;facts&quot; which are not true. I am not even going to put examples of this here - I am sure everyone can think up their own versions or even think of things they themselves have had to relearn due to opinions changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I have been wondering something similar about the way our young children are often taught the letters (and their sounds) in preschool. Very often this is done by letter of the week and I believe this is not a good way to teach this &#8211; it would be better to teach more at a time with plenty of spaced repetition. Naturally the more something is repeated the more it will be remembered and spacing well is needed so that the maximum amount can be presented and remembered.</p>
<p>However, I would be careful of teaching certain &#8220;facts&#8221; as much of what we learn could be opinion rather than fact and I would not like to influence my child with &#8220;facts&#8221; which are not true. I am not even going to put examples of this here &#8211; I am sure everyone can think up their own versions or even think of things they themselves have had to relearn due to opinions changing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44198</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44198</guid>
		<description>Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44197</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44197</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m not advocating for &quot;true witnesses,&quot; my idea of &quot;neutral observers&quot; is different, isn&#039;t it?

I think some people are a lot better at this than others. I also think that it can be trained. It is possible that at some level and to some degree, we cannot escape our bias. But a really good scholar, and this is true of lawyers as well, is capable of identifying all of the assumptions that he makes that other people are capable of calling into question.

All too often I found, when managing Nupedia, Wikipedia, and Citizendium, that people would come up with what were essentially &lt;em&gt;excuses&lt;/em&gt; for thinking they could not write more neutrally. I think they simply have not been exposed to a certain kind of scholarship enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not advocating for &#8220;true witnesses,&#8221; my idea of &#8220;neutral observers&#8221; is different, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>I think some people are a lot better at this than others. I also think that it can be trained. It is possible that at some level and to some degree, we cannot escape our bias. But a really good scholar, and this is true of lawyers as well, is capable of identifying all of the assumptions that he makes that other people are capable of calling into question.</p>
<p>All too often I found, when managing Nupedia, Wikipedia, and Citizendium, that people would come up with what were essentially <em>excuses</em> for thinking they could not write more neutrally. I think they simply have not been exposed to a certain kind of scholarship enough.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44196</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44196</guid>
		<description>Interesting. There is one really big difference that I can see between my tutorial system and your dreams of disintermediation between artists and the public: it&#039;s possible to get access to a lot of artist-created media without paying for it online; it is not possible to get access to instruction without paying for it. You can get access to content and course materials, yes; but you can&#039;t get personalized feedback on your work, nor can you get a credible degree. In fact this difference is so enormous that I wonder what is left your your analogy.

Jay, if you think our zeitgeist is anything but &lt;em&gt;abjectly statist,&lt;/em&gt; you haven&#039;t got the first clue about what an anarcho-capitalist zeitgeist would look like. What is allegedly the most right-wing government in the world, that of the U.S., spends about 40% of the GDP--trillions of dollars. &lt;strong&gt;Forty percent.&lt;/strong&gt; That is huge! And it is not by accident. Some part of the government is &lt;em&gt;expected&lt;/em&gt; by most people, even many Republicans, either to have its heavy hand in, or absolutely control, almost every area of human life. And you call our zeitgeist &quot;anarcho-capitalist&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. There is one really big difference that I can see between my tutorial system and your dreams of disintermediation between artists and the public: it&#8217;s possible to get access to a lot of artist-created media without paying for it online; it is not possible to get access to instruction without paying for it. You can get access to content and course materials, yes; but you can&#8217;t get personalized feedback on your work, nor can you get a credible degree. In fact this difference is so enormous that I wonder what is left your your analogy.</p>
<p>Jay, if you think our zeitgeist is anything but <em>abjectly statist,</em> you haven&#8217;t got the first clue about what an anarcho-capitalist zeitgeist would look like. What is allegedly the most right-wing government in the world, that of the U.S., spends about 40% of the GDP&#8211;trillions of dollars. <strong>Forty percent.</strong> That is huge! And it is not by accident. Some part of the government is <em>expected</em> by most people, even many Republicans, either to have its heavy hand in, or absolutely control, almost every area of human life. And you call our zeitgeist &#8220;anarcho-capitalist&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44192</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44192</guid>
		<description>Now that&#039;s funny!

Scholars have never been neutral, and they have never been committed to neutrality. They take sides, and there is nothing wrong with taking sides. The world would be awfully boring if everyone was a &quot;neutral,&quot; and academia would be, too.

That said, one of the most striking facts about academia in the humanities and social sciences since about 1980 is how open its social and political bias is--so much so that it has become positively intolerant to anything else.

If anything, reflection on the viability of being a &quot;neutral&quot; in academe gives me some reason to think the very idea is, while perhaps not incoherent, then practically impossible. Three (but only three) main ways that academics propagate their biases include (1) topic selection, (2) adoption of whole elaborate systems of loaded terms, i.e., concepts that imply a whole complex set of controversial opinions, and (3) failure to recognize that the assumptions behind their fields are ultimately ideological and philosophical, and not so clearly amenable to empirical research. In the face of such habits, can we really expect many people to have the independence of mind to challenge or analyze the topics, vocabulary, and assumptions of the field?

No, sadly, mere &lt;em&gt;neutrality&lt;/em&gt; about such things would be so difficult and requires such courage in the face of peer disapproval (and everything that it entails) that very few people would be able to pull it off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that&#8217;s funny!</p>
<p>Scholars have never been neutral, and they have never been committed to neutrality. They take sides, and there is nothing wrong with taking sides. The world would be awfully boring if everyone was a &#8220;neutral,&#8221; and academia would be, too.</p>
<p>That said, one of the most striking facts about academia in the humanities and social sciences since about 1980 is how open its social and political bias is&#8211;so much so that it has become positively intolerant to anything else.</p>
<p>If anything, reflection on the viability of being a &#8220;neutral&#8221; in academe gives me some reason to think the very idea is, while perhaps not incoherent, then practically impossible. Three (but only three) main ways that academics propagate their biases include (1) topic selection, (2) adoption of whole elaborate systems of loaded terms, i.e., concepts that imply a whole complex set of controversial opinions, and (3) failure to recognize that the assumptions behind their fields are ultimately ideological and philosophical, and not so clearly amenable to empirical research. In the face of such habits, can we really expect many people to have the independence of mind to challenge or analyze the topics, vocabulary, and assumptions of the field?</p>
<p>No, sadly, mere <em>neutrality</em> about such things would be so difficult and requires such courage in the face of peer disapproval (and everything that it entails) that very few people would be able to pull it off.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44191</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44191</guid>
		<description>You might have a point. I&#039;d like to see how it goes, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might have a point. I&#8217;d like to see how it goes, though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44185</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 17:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44185</guid>
		<description>Regarding - &quot;They’d be extremely well employed as consultants, internal and external.&quot;. This is sadly false. Professionally, I am a consultant. The first thing a consultant learns is that the client is primarily interested in being told what they want to hear, and often actively hostile to anything else. There is a whole genre of humor based on this unfortunate fact.

In fact, there are plenty of studies that show being accurate counts *against* one professionally, versus being on the bandwagon for an ill-considered cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding &#8211; &#8220;They’d be extremely well employed as consultants, internal and external.&#8221;. This is sadly false. Professionally, I am a consultant. The first thing a consultant learns is that the client is primarily interested in being told what they want to hear, and often actively hostile to anything else. There is a whole genre of humor based on this unfortunate fact.</p>
<p>In fact, there are plenty of studies that show being accurate counts *against* one professionally, versus being on the bandwagon for an ill-considered cause.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by jay oconnell</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44172</link>
		<dc:creator>jay oconnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 17:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44172</guid>
		<description>I think what we have learned about the active nature of memory itself argues against the possibility of the true witness; you presume that as humans we work from the same set of axioms, fundamental understandings... I&#039;m reminded of the Christians Scientists, who when confronted with the reality of their lower life expectancy simply shrug and say they&#039;d rather live a life free from the tyranny of &#039;materia medica&#039;. I think our brains are literally incapable of making sense of, storing, retrieving, realities which cause cognitive dissonance. Agnosticism is alien to human nature... but, yeah, I&#039;ve had these thoughts too, some shared body of factual information that we could agree was factual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what we have learned about the active nature of memory itself argues against the possibility of the true witness; you presume that as humans we work from the same set of axioms, fundamental understandings&#8230; I&#8217;m reminded of the Christians Scientists, who when confronted with the reality of their lower life expectancy simply shrug and say they&#8217;d rather live a life free from the tyranny of &#8216;materia medica&#8217;. I think our brains are literally incapable of making sense of, storing, retrieving, realities which cause cognitive dissonance. Agnosticism is alien to human nature&#8230; but, yeah, I&#8217;ve had these thoughts too, some shared body of factual information that we could agree was factual.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An assortment of things that should exist by jay oconnell</title>
		<link>http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/an-assortment-of-things-that-should-exist/#comment-44171</link>
		<dc:creator>jay oconnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 17:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larrysanger.org/?p=1157#comment-44171</guid>
		<description>Your tutorial system reminds me of my dreams of disintermediation as a way of providing increased resources for creative people, writers, artists, musicians; instead we saw the widespread cultural embrace of intellectual property piracy, and the new middlemen of internet search and social media. In a dominantly right wing anarcho capitalist dominated zeitgeist, we may dismantle the university system and replace it with some even worse; less transparent, less accessible, less effective. Privatized on-line universities fleecing veterans out of their education stipends, saddling them with debt and disgorging them without skills or degree, is the first wave of something worse. I dread the second wave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your tutorial system reminds me of my dreams of disintermediation as a way of providing increased resources for creative people, writers, artists, musicians; instead we saw the widespread cultural embrace of intellectual property piracy, and the new middlemen of internet search and social media. In a dominantly right wing anarcho capitalist dominated zeitgeist, we may dismantle the university system and replace it with some even worse; less transparent, less accessible, less effective. Privatized on-line universities fleecing veterans out of their education stipends, saddling them with debt and disgorging them without skills or degree, is the first wave of something worse. I dread the second wave.</p>
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